demos in galleries?
category: general [glöplog]
Is the inbred demoscene fame all that everyone wants? Why isn't anyone dreaming about world domination anymore?
A good start would be an invasion to "neighboring scenes". Like, make a bunch of silly outsider-compatible storydemos and post them to machinima.com. Quite many alternatives are available now on the age of Internet and video streaming :)
A good start would be an invasion to "neighboring scenes". Like, make a bunch of silly outsider-compatible storydemos and post them to machinima.com. Quite many alternatives are available now on the age of Internet and video streaming :)
There are film festivals that show demos. A lot of Traction demos have been shown at those.
because a good story demo is actually rather hard to do. (and flashy "demo-style" demos, in comparison, aren't. :D)
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I've just noticed this.I talked also to a owner of a computer gaming hall which had a bigscreen where mostly MTV was shown. I asked him to show Demos instead. He watched a few and said its not possible, the kids there only like hip hop...
There are a lot of i-popy demos... with grafity like stuff and all. They like i-pop and watch MTV? Right...
I don't think good story demos are actually any harder to do than the usual "flashy shit". You just need to concentrate on somewhat different areas and perhaps use some imagination to avoid some of the most laborous stuff. And yes, I've been seriously considering making something like this on some modern platform.
And anyway, when invading the machinima scene, we only need to beat their own standards, which tend to be quite low :)
And anyway, when invading the machinima scene, we only need to beat their own standards, which tend to be quite low :)
I have to say that the only machinima I've seen were the ones on the SCEEN DVD... I liked them both.
No machinima lover would really understand demos, and would judge them as being the same shit. But as viznut said:
No machinima lover would really understand demos, and would judge them as being the same shit. But as viznut said:
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And anyway, when invading the machinima scene, we only need to beat their own standards, which tend to be quite low :)
xernobyl: sorry but you are wrong, GOOGLE MACHINIMA AND DEMOSCENE .. you will found demoscene stuff at machinima.org and lots of mention that machinima started from demoscene...
good demos=art
crap demos=3dtest(.exe)
crap demos=3dtest(.exe)
nosfe: you didnt like mfx-1995?
yes, that is EXACTLY what i meant.
Yes. We did it for two years in a row here in Italy, Suzzara, "Dino Villani" prize . I had pictures of the gallery, maybe I'll post them around sooner or later ;)
viznut I hear you totally.
I think one of the values of the scene is to INVADE every area. Like (dipswitch may hate me for saying it) graffiti makers do. Even they started to play with new textures, new techniques. And like us they suffer from inspiring themselves over and over again. Like us, they have this inner crowd of obsessive craftmakers.
Also regarding the current style of demos.. Could we say that the current state of the PC demo comes from, shall we say, not lazyness, but lack of time? A too big of a focus on systems, engines and tools, compared to a focus on the demo itself? A reasonable cheapness to cave-in with the style of the day to play well with the crowd? We are excessively fast, but still, shouldn't our effort be even more decisive. Shouldn't we try to /make a difference/?
I remember talking with one TBL member near the bonfire of breakpoint. It must have been breakpoint 2003. I heard him distinctively, surrounded by an otherwise happy crowd, my face
warm, my back cold from an april night's air. He was saying something about PC demo creators being too cheap in their undertakings, going the easier route, letting their demos be controlled by the strength of their soundtracks. Something about only making music videos.
Maybe about lacking .. discourse, with the spectator?
I think one of the values of the scene is to INVADE every area. Like (dipswitch may hate me for saying it) graffiti makers do. Even they started to play with new textures, new techniques. And like us they suffer from inspiring themselves over and over again. Like us, they have this inner crowd of obsessive craftmakers.
Also regarding the current style of demos.. Could we say that the current state of the PC demo comes from, shall we say, not lazyness, but lack of time? A too big of a focus on systems, engines and tools, compared to a focus on the demo itself? A reasonable cheapness to cave-in with the style of the day to play well with the crowd? We are excessively fast, but still, shouldn't our effort be even more decisive. Shouldn't we try to /make a difference/?
I remember talking with one TBL member near the bonfire of breakpoint. It must have been breakpoint 2003. I heard him distinctively, surrounded by an otherwise happy crowd, my face
warm, my back cold from an april night's air. He was saying something about PC demo creators being too cheap in their undertakings, going the easier route, letting their demos be controlled by the strength of their soundtracks. Something about only making music videos.
Maybe about lacking .. discourse, with the spectator?
For the spanish people, somebody showed me this link the other day (started yesterday, ends tomorrow):
http://www.abc.es/20060817/cultura-arte/conde-duque-muestra-lado_200608171447.html
I wonder who's behind though
http://www.abc.es/20060817/cultura-arte/conde-duque-muestra-lado_200608171447.html
I wonder who's behind though
Sorry, started today and ends this saturday
documentation: i2pi - excuse me whilst I clear my throat
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I think one of the values of the scene is to INVADE every area. Like (dipswitch may hate me for saying it) graffiti makers do.
uhm why? i surely agree.
At some point you alluded on how cliche the whole comparaison was ;)
Excuses, excuses. Every platform needs some base work before you can do decent stuff with it. I think the actual problem with the modern PC is that you're so blindfolded by all the technical and stylistic possibilities that it prevents you from developing a strong idea and sticking to it.
Even if you have a lot of nice tools that give you a lot of freedom for quick experimentation, you still tend to choose the "usual route" because of some senseless idea of what demos "should look and sound like". This kind of thinking basically puts you inside a little box when there's a much greater world outside of it.
Even if you have a lot of nice tools that give you a lot of freedom for quick experimentation, you still tend to choose the "usual route" because of some senseless idea of what demos "should look and sound like". This kind of thinking basically puts you inside a little box when there's a much greater world outside of it.
the problem is also that at demoparties if you try to release something which would have some kind of deeper/meaningful content and/or following style of esthetics which is not the "demostyle of the year" you're more than likely to not get shown unless it's a really small party.
the jurying of compo entries before compos is killing the creativity in the scene.
also, to me it seems that majority of demoscene is really conservative regarding to the idea what demos can be. and i really don't see any change happening there.
as computer based art i do value demos a lot more than most of the shit i've seen at galleries and museums, as i think that techinal skill has influence on the value of piece of art. most of the "computer" arts seen in contemporary exhibitions is based on really low technical skills, often the artists are using just some techinicians to realise their ideas. which i personally see as same as letting someone else paint your works (which of course has worked fine for some classical painters)
also, several demoparties have rules regarding the content of demos, for example saying that political messages are not allowed. which also makes it quite difficult to work with something that would be regarded as "art".
the jurying of compo entries before compos is killing the creativity in the scene.
also, to me it seems that majority of demoscene is really conservative regarding to the idea what demos can be. and i really don't see any change happening there.
as computer based art i do value demos a lot more than most of the shit i've seen at galleries and museums, as i think that techinal skill has influence on the value of piece of art. most of the "computer" arts seen in contemporary exhibitions is based on really low technical skills, often the artists are using just some techinicians to realise their ideas. which i personally see as same as letting someone else paint your works (which of course has worked fine for some classical painters)
also, several demoparties have rules regarding the content of demos, for example saying that political messages are not allowed. which also makes it quite difficult to work with something that would be regarded as "art".
Demoscene is just one of many scenes. If you want to see your products / prods you like at galleries and have them enjoy the same respect as "real art", you gotta rent a gallery and show that stuff...
"Real artists" don't have it easy either, it's not like they just make art and some big-shot billionare comes and puts their work on display. They use their own money and time in a very risky business where respect and money aren't the goal. It's about expressing yourself and MAYBE someone likes the product and sponsors your life abit further.
It takes more than a plasma-effect to touch someone :)
"Real artists" don't have it easy either, it's not like they just make art and some big-shot billionare comes and puts their work on display. They use their own money and time in a very risky business where respect and money aren't the goal. It's about expressing yourself and MAYBE someone likes the product and sponsors your life abit further.
It takes more than a plasma-effect to touch someone :)
Okay... That "plasma-effect" bit was abit unfair.
Many demos are definately worth showing to the outside world...
So my point was, the next time you're thinking about organizing a demoparty, organize a gallery instead.
Many demos are definately worth showing to the outside world...
So my point was, the next time you're thinking about organizing a demoparty, organize a gallery instead.
The only thing killing creativity is the people themselves. I don't believe it is a systematic problem, more an issue with lack of time dedicated to it.
Or maybe, we're affraid to be creative, because there's always the risk of being ridiculous.
Or maybe, we're affraid to be creative, because there's always the risk of being ridiculous.
I think a major driving force for the demoscene has always been the ability to give KOOL DEMO-SHOCKS to people. That is, to show them things they have never seen before.
This used to mean new effects and performance records, but now that their general shock value tends to be quite low, there's a definite need for exploring some totally new frontiers of DEMO-SHOCK.
I've noted that the general attitudes regarding what demos can be are currently much more open than, say, ten years ago, but there's still something that discourages the most creative and ambitious sceners from bringing their creativity to the maximum.
This used to mean new effects and performance records, but now that their general shock value tends to be quite low, there's a definite need for exploring some totally new frontiers of DEMO-SHOCK.
I've noted that the general attitudes regarding what demos can be are currently much more open than, say, ten years ago, but there's still something that discourages the most creative and ambitious sceners from bringing their creativity to the maximum.
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their general shock value tends to be quite low
"Shock value" is always subjective, some people never raised an eyebrow for Starstruck regardless of other people jumping and screaming. There's no "universally shocking" demo or intro - in fact, the most generally accepted "shockers" are usually rather mainstream things, like content-packed 64k intros.
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there's still something that discourages the most creative and ambitious sceners from bringing their creativity to the maximum
Yes. People going on stage, for example. Or people who complain that their stuff doesn't contain artistic value.
