memory usage
category: general [glöplog]
What the fuck are you saying here?
All this ram shit....Oh yeah,ram is free,i have 128 megs of ram on my PC,my demo uses 256 megs of ram but suddenly i found out that it works ok with 128 megs of ram....
Consoles have no more than 64 megs of ram( my dreamcast has 16megs and it is one helluva beast...)
and have always had no problems....
I cannot understand...something is particularly weird with PC's and theis requirements...
And yes,write the same shit again:Why limit yourself,you are lame, you are stupid and such,but either way,Consoles and theis respective coders require far more respect than the ones on PCs...
If you do not want restrictions on hardware,then there is no need to code...use Studio Max,Lightwave etc etc and make the shit you make now...
Demos are supposed to have tech restrictions so what the hell are you talkin' about here....
All this ram shit....Oh yeah,ram is free,i have 128 megs of ram on my PC,my demo uses 256 megs of ram but suddenly i found out that it works ok with 128 megs of ram....
Consoles have no more than 64 megs of ram( my dreamcast has 16megs and it is one helluva beast...)
and have always had no problems....
I cannot understand...something is particularly weird with PC's and theis requirements...
And yes,write the same shit again:Why limit yourself,you are lame, you are stupid and such,but either way,Consoles and theis respective coders require far more respect than the ones on PCs...
If you do not want restrictions on hardware,then there is no need to code...use Studio Max,Lightwave etc etc and make the shit you make now...
Demos are supposed to have tech restrictions so what the hell are you talkin' about here....
raol.: lamer!
Loading off discs etc while running is a PERFECT sollution .. if you have a console or other locked-hardware (amiga etc) .. BUT on pc etc (where i have a ruined IDE drive that tend to seek for a file in 3 secs before it gets found) this is not an option.
Loading off discs etc while running is a PERFECT sollution .. if you have a console or other locked-hardware (amiga etc) .. BUT on pc etc (where i have a ruined IDE drive that tend to seek for a file in 3 secs before it gets found) this is not an option.
raoul: if you actually had an idea what you were talking about you'd know that you comparisons between modern PC's and consoles or "oldskool" computers are irrelevant at best.
As Chaos put it (or even, less eloquently, Stefan with his to-the-point bluntness we all love to hate) there are simply other issues at hand.
But again, if you want to show us how it's done...feel free to make a demo which runs perfectly on a 64mb system and is not less cool than demos *we* make.
As Chaos put it (or even, less eloquently, Stefan with his to-the-point bluntness we all love to hate) there are simply other issues at hand.
But again, if you want to show us how it's done...feel free to make a demo which runs perfectly on a 64mb system and is not less cool than demos *we* make.
YEAH! make better demo than dxm! now thats not a possibility, but still you can try!
i think it has something to do with percentages :)
percentages of :) yeah! lets make a :) is happy as a (:
can't get out of my mind stefan is a 16years spoiled brat leaving with his parents .. then again he may be 30years old and simply retarded
Kinda drifting off topic...
Old Amiga 500 demos were more or less guaranteed to run on another Amiga 500. With PCs (windoze) there is no guarantee due to the vast differences in hardware setups.
I don't think this is such a bad thing.
For example, when/if I upgrade my CPU and/or GFX card, I have the perfect excuse to go and watch all demos saved on my hard drive just to see how much better they run. Kinda cool.
This little fringe 'benefit' never happened when I moved from an A500 to A4000.
Old Amiga 500 demos were more or less guaranteed to run on another Amiga 500. With PCs (windoze) there is no guarantee due to the vast differences in hardware setups.
I don't think this is such a bad thing.
For example, when/if I upgrade my CPU and/or GFX card, I have the perfect excuse to go and watch all demos saved on my hard drive just to see how much better they run. Kinda cool.
This little fringe 'benefit' never happened when I moved from an A500 to A4000.
updated hardware is always exciting ofcourse :)
but so is the loveboat
so what's your point?
so what's your point?
"insert disc 2"
remove disc 1 first! :)
knot (or the man without name):
uhm, how does it feel being 10xmore stupid than a 16 year old brat living with his parents?
uhm, how does it feel being 10xmore stupid than a 16 year old brat living with his parents?
It's funny cause I don't understand nothing :)
- there is no need loading anything from disk while the demo runs if you demo is less than 10 MB compressed (as it should)
- writing your own texture management is a very good way of messing your engine up if you don't know exactly what you are doing.
- requiring 512 MB Ram is "lame".
- black screens and multipart demos is a limitation for most designs. but "please wait for part II" (or III)gives you a garantied applause in the intro-competition....
a real problem and no simple solution.
ryg: isn't texture swizzling done in hardware during transfer? some cards do, but i don't know about GeForce and Radeon. but if you render to texture or use non-power-of-two dimensions you usually end up un-swizzled.
- writing your own texture management is a very good way of messing your engine up if you don't know exactly what you are doing.
- requiring 512 MB Ram is "lame".
- black screens and multipart demos is a limitation for most designs. but "please wait for part II" (or III)gives you a garantied applause in the intro-competition....
a real problem and no simple solution.
ryg: isn't texture swizzling done in hardware during transfer? some cards do, but i don't know about GeForce and Radeon. but if you render to texture or use non-power-of-two dimensions you usually end up un-swizzled.
I have said another time that I personally don't whine because I can't watch a demo in my current machine. Even if I would have 1GHz of memory, I would still argue, cause I find that these amount of memory are extremelly large and even bigger than commercial games, it's not the scene spirit. It's not a matter of computer equipment, we would still complain even if you gave each of us a monster computer as a present for our birthday!
But I know we are lame people who don't produce nothing and just whine (And that's a true fact!), as several lamers say so in the demoscene, and I don't give a fuck about your demo running in my system, it's your demo not mine afteralls!
Something else: Now I see that you don't know shit about what's going on with memory management when working with 3d accelerated API's (Add also the amount of memory eaten by windows to this). That's the fate of the PC afteralls, I may suck afteralls, beeing a lazy lamer bashing others demos because I have a crappy old system (Which I lately upgraded again and still beeing a crappy, but that's not what I care about ;), I know I am a lamer, but let me then just bash the PC world instead of demos. They do suck, and Raoul has pointed very well that they destroy the real oldskool fun of hardcore democoding! At least in assembly and Dos, you knew 100% what the hell was going on as you got a more experienced coder. It was a diferrent feeling and let me bash PC again (Instead of PC lamers and new demos ;P)
Sorry.. if I was pathetic you can flame me freely, just expressin myself hard..
But I know we are lame people who don't produce nothing and just whine (And that's a true fact!), as several lamers say so in the demoscene, and I don't give a fuck about your demo running in my system, it's your demo not mine afteralls!
Something else: Now I see that you don't know shit about what's going on with memory management when working with 3d accelerated API's (Add also the amount of memory eaten by windows to this). That's the fate of the PC afteralls, I may suck afteralls, beeing a lazy lamer bashing others demos because I have a crappy old system (Which I lately upgraded again and still beeing a crappy, but that's not what I care about ;), I know I am a lamer, but let me then just bash the PC world instead of demos. They do suck, and Raoul has pointed very well that they destroy the real oldskool fun of hardcore democoding! At least in assembly and Dos, you knew 100% what the hell was going on as you got a more experienced coder. It was a diferrent feeling and let me bash PC again (Instead of PC lamers and new demos ;P)
Sorry.. if I was pathetic you can flame me freely, just expressin myself hard..
optimus: If you had 1GHz of memory, you still wouldn't have a single byte available :) (nitpicking, yes, I know)
chaos: I'm not sure which cards support it during upload and which don't, but even if all do, experience shows that it's still a bad idea to assume something like that.
plek: that the backing storage won't disappear was my whole point there... other things: it sucks with different sizes because you'll potentially be allocating space for buffers that almost never gets used. i.e. if you have one 1024x1024x32bpp texture, you still need a 1024x1024x32bpp buffer in VRAM, taking up 4MB that aren't available for more common, more frequent texture sizes. this problem can't be solved without a concept of texture pages on d3d level (i.e. areas of (video) memory where you can place textures where you want). swizzling/upload stuff: the painful delays when uploading a texture usually occur when the video memory is kinda full at that point and the driver first has to clean it up - precisely because they have to deal with not-so-nice-issues as variable sized textures in the same memory range as vertex buffers etc. updatetexture performance is ok, but i'd not rely on it for a custom texture management system. something like an anachronous version of that to pre-shuffle textures into vram would be better then.
luckily, it turns out that you have something like that with normal managed textures (vertex and index buffers too!) - the IDirect3DResource8::PreLoad function looks really promising! I only found it relatively recent though.
It could also probably be used to fix a hack I currently have in my demo system - selecting all textures once into a texture stage to make sure the driver actually created them (some try to be clever and delay creation or atleast setup till they are first used - haven't disassembled them to see what exactly :) - which causes stutters on scene changes)
chaos: I'm not sure which cards support it during upload and which don't, but even if all do, experience shows that it's still a bad idea to assume something like that.
plek: that the backing storage won't disappear was my whole point there... other things: it sucks with different sizes because you'll potentially be allocating space for buffers that almost never gets used. i.e. if you have one 1024x1024x32bpp texture, you still need a 1024x1024x32bpp buffer in VRAM, taking up 4MB that aren't available for more common, more frequent texture sizes. this problem can't be solved without a concept of texture pages on d3d level (i.e. areas of (video) memory where you can place textures where you want). swizzling/upload stuff: the painful delays when uploading a texture usually occur when the video memory is kinda full at that point and the driver first has to clean it up - precisely because they have to deal with not-so-nice-issues as variable sized textures in the same memory range as vertex buffers etc. updatetexture performance is ok, but i'd not rely on it for a custom texture management system. something like an anachronous version of that to pre-shuffle textures into vram would be better then.
luckily, it turns out that you have something like that with normal managed textures (vertex and index buffers too!) - the IDirect3DResource8::PreLoad function looks really promising! I only found it relatively recent though.
It could also probably be used to fix a hack I currently have in my demo system - selecting all textures once into a texture stage to make sure the driver actually created them (some try to be clever and delay creation or atleast setup till they are first used - haven't disassembled them to see what exactly :) - which causes stutters on scene changes)
oh yes, but you all suck anyway...
:-)
:-)